"Forced" Feminization/Sissification Experiences and Thoughts

[tiedinbluetights]

I'm going to come out fully straight from the top of this post: I am fairly well built and fit man, in his fifties, with health issues that are manageable for the moment because I exercise regularly (followed by sport physiotherapists). I love to wear opaque tights and leotards, one-piece full-bodysuits, stockings, corsets, ballet flats, high-heels, .... However, I look absolutely ridiculous in a feminine blouse or a dress (but I do look smashing in kilt according to my wife, even while wearing tights; and before you ask, it's for HER eyes only ). Moreover, finding women's shoes in my size (US men's size 11, wide) is no easy task.

Now, my thoughts and musings are about the "forced" and humiliation aspects. I am absolutely not into humiliation-play; that is not the reason I like to be tied-up in clothing and foot-wear normally associated with women's clothes. I simply like the feel and the look on my body and against the ropes that bind me. Moreover, I don't feel humiliated (nor would I like to feel as such) when my wife teases me while I'm tied-up in my leotards and tights. If she was to put a wig on me and apply make-up on me, I wouldn't object (not that I could, being bound and gagged). If she ever decided that the time had come in our explorations of consensual BDSM to start "sissifying" me, by making me wear the stereotypical "french-maid" outfit while doing my chores, I'd be game There is no mockery, which would be a source of humiliation.

So what got me to write this post is that none of what I wrote above comes across as forced nor as humiliating. More importantly, neither my wife nor I want it to. The appeal is that it is consensual and respectful. Early in our relationship, when I told her about my desire, kinks, and fantasies, she had mixed reactions about the "sissification" aspects: she loved the idea of me wearing tights and leotards, having a fetish herself for male ballet dancers, but was very perturbed by the terminology (sissification, feminization, ...) and other associated aspects (a form of humiliation and degradation for the male recipient at female or male hands). In other words, she perceived it as an insult against women, perhaps even misogynistic, for men to consider that femininity and dressing up or otherwise acting as women is to be considered by men as degrading and humiliating. I reassured her back then, and continue to do so, that for me it was not about being humiliated or degraded, but simply about liking how wearing clothing like nylons and spandex increases the more pleasurable sensations I associate with being tied-up, and that I liked and admired the look.

However, both our experiences prior to having met each other were exposure to feminization/sissification stories where it was depicted purely as degrading and dehumanizing for the male "victim." Even once we hooked-up and started reading stories as well as "how to..." kink and BDSM references together, it was near impossible to come across anything that did not focus on the humiliation aspects. We looked for in vain for anything that would treat the subject as just something fun and pleasurable for all parties involved (neither forced, nor humiliating, nor disrespectful of anyone's identity).

So, if you've read this far, my questions, musings, thoughts are these: has anyone ever had similar experiences and issues with the "forced" humiliation or degrading aspects of feminization and sissification? Is there any reference material or site that treats all participants with respect with no shaming, mockery, or devaluing one gender over an other. I've seen the Femboy community reclaim the word Sissy and giving it more positive connotations, but I'm clearly no Femboy myself, so what should I call what I'm into (wearing traditionally women's skin-tight undergarments while tied-up), but otherwise not even trying to pass as a woman)?

[wannabetiedup]

Very interesting musings, and echo somewhat my own thoughts on the subject, of trying not to associate the actual humiliation as "being a woman". So when I see the humiliation associated with forced feminisation, it is along the lines of seen to be totally dominated and made look silly for your partner's amusement. Also potentially losing face and the respect of peers can feel humiliating too, and going against all the stereotypes of "what a man should be or how a man should act" feeds into that.

I would also love to try out a bit of my wife's clothes as you've described just because of the feel and look of them but might be a bit much for her lol.

[tiedinbluetights]

Also potentially losing face and the respect of peers can feel humiliating too, and going against all the stereotypes of "what a man should be or how a man should act" feeds into that.

Indeed, and that's why my wife has always insisted on it being an activity that should not have those negative conotations. Last thing she and I would want is for her to lose respect for me as her peer and partner in life (and TUGs). I figured that the potential of losing the respect of one's peers is part and parcel of the humiliation aspects in feminisation stories and fantasies, but in RL, do the participants of forced feminisation really crave that potential danger of discovery by non-participating, non-consenting to the activity peers? I know that in my case, neither my rope-dom (and loving wife) nor I crave that potential danger.

I would also love to try out a bit of my wife's clothes as you've described just because of the feel and look of them but might be a bit much for her lol.

My wife has bought me some tights and leotards in my size (she didn't want me ruining hers!). But of course not every wife of a big burly grizzly bear of a man would want to see how he looks like dressed up as a ballet dancer However, I do adore my wife's giggles and inability to keep her hands of my bound form when ever I'm dressed up in my tights

Thanks for sharing your thoughts @wannabetiedup

[wannabetiedup]

Yep the discovery of any outside person is not appealing at all, and I do feel that if I ever got round to it with my wife it would play out like your set-up, with respect kept intact! I would like to think of any additions she might make to my attire would be accompanied by the playful giggles you mention. If anything like this happens for me, I'll write about it here!

[captured_prize]

Very interesting read @tiedinbluetights. Just like your wife, I really don't like the the sissification/feminization terminology as well as the whole humiliation aspect of it. Something about it has always rubbed me the wrong way. When I crossdress, I don't consider it humiliating at all, it's just me expressing another side of myself. Honestly, the whole sissification thing comes off as both misogynistic and even homophobic which is why I don't associate with that label in any way.

[tiedinbluetights]

Thanks @captured_prize Love your new profile pic by the way. I wish we could have more constructive terms. I sort of like "crossdress", but that still implies a sort of division that goes against some "norm". Playing "dress-up" is what my cousins used to call it when we were kids. So perhaps I'm more "dressing-up" for TUGs into my TUG "dress" sort of, rather than being "forced" feminized.

[BlissfulMisery]

Now, my thoughts and musings are about the "forced" and humiliation aspects. I am absolutely not into humiliation-play; that is not the reason I like to be tied-up in clothing and foot-wear normally associated with women's clothes. I simply like the feel and the look on my body and against the ropes that bind me. Moreover, I don't feel humiliated (nor would I like to feel as such) when my wife teases me while I'm tied-up in my leotards and tights. If she was to put a wig on me and apply make-up on me, I wouldn't object (not that I could, being bound and gagged). If she ever decided that the time had come in our explorations of consensual BDSM to start "sissifying" me, by making me wear the stereotypical "french-maid" outfit while doing my chores, I'd be game There is no mockery, which would be a source of humiliation.

In no way trying to take anything away from this sentiment (it is a lovely one!), but something I would comment/add on this general topic:

Humiliation is seen as a purely negative thing by society at large... But I suspect there is a reason so many submissives (of any gender) are attracted to it*. If one thinks about it, humiliation can be boiled down to psychological pain, specifically pain inflicted on one's ego. It is not a large leap from there to see the desire to be humiliated as a kind of psychological masochism.

At which point I feel it becomes clearer as to why someone would desire this ostensibly bad thing - namely many of the same reasons why one would desire to suffer physical pain. Reasons that can include (depending on the person you ask) things like the physical or emotional thrill/excitement that comes with being 'in danger', a desire to atone for some transgression (real or imagined), to gain a sense of control over one's self (ie regulation), as an act of service to please another, or the catharsis that comes with having 'survived' some sort of ordeal - and there are other reasons of course. Many of these easily translate from the physical to the psychological, especially since masochism in general is a highly mental thing (it is not like masochists do not experience pain as... well painful).

Overall point being, humiliation does not *have* to be a bad thing.

*Obviously I am not trying to imply anything/label anyone specifically. Not everyone enjoys the same things and the hypothesis I postulate is only looking at one potential facet of submission as a whole. The psychology involved is far too complex to be distilled to something so simple.

...but was very perturbed by the terminology (sissification, feminization, ...) and other associated aspects (a form of humiliation and degradation for the male recipient at female or male hands). In other words, she perceived it as an insult against women, perhaps even misogynistic, for men to consider that femininity and dressing up or otherwise acting as women is to be considered by men as degrading and humiliating.

At the end of the day we exist in a culture that views the feminine as weak or lesser*. Work/roles that are seen as traditionally feminine are often seen as being of lower social status (for example, think of how a doctor is generally considered of higher social status then a nurse). Men who enjoy anything 'feminine' (as determined by arbitrary norms) are commonly mocked, and certainly acting feminine in any way is considered 'weakness'. Even the English language has this built into it in the form of sayings such as 'to man up', or the fact that 'having balls' means to be brave, while 'being a pussy' means to be weak or cowardly. 'Bitch' is yet another gender-loaded insult and again implies that being feminine or submissive in general is bad. Not even going to get into the more extreme places a lot of this goes, both to avoid delving into politics and to keep this shorter.

*Again, I am perfectly aware not everyone on this forum is from the 'same culture' but I think most would admit that the sorts of sentiments I bring up are pervasive across cultural boundaries in most modern societies.

However, both our experiences prior to having met each other were exposure to feminization/sissification stories where it was depicted purely as degrading and dehumanizing for the male "victim." Even once we hooked-up and started reading stories as well as "how to..." kink and BDSM references together, it was near impossible to come across anything that did not focus on the humiliation aspects.

I suspect the reason this sort of thing is so pervasive is there is likely at least some internalized shame on the part of many straight male submissives about the societal norms around such things, and such kinks are a way to help emotionally work through that.

A mirror of sorts to how many straight female submissives have desires to be sexually controlled/used/humiliated, which in that case likely stems from the societal tendency to 'slut shame' any woman who expresses or acts on sexual desires or otherwise does not act as a 'good pure little girl' (more to unpack in those words alone but again, cutting it off for the sake of brevity/not going too far off topic). In both cases it can be freeing to be 'forced' into things to avoid the shame that comes with going against what has been drilled into one's head their whole life.

So, if you've read this far, my questions, musings, thoughts are these: has anyone ever had similar experiences and issues with the "forced" humiliation or degrading aspects of feminization and sissification? Is there any reference material or site that treats all participants with respect with no shaming, mockery, or devaluing one gender over an other.

Unfortunately I cannot help there. And while I would prefer that society would become more inclusive and understanding of difference, I suspect this is not likely to come any time soon (humans are wired to be wary of difference or deviation). Plus the people that actually need to hear these sorts of things/be convinced are going to be the least open to hearing them/being convinced.

Anyways I think I have rambled more then enough so I will leave it there. An interesting topic to explore and I appreciate it being brought up (and also the overall candidness/openness, especially in the original post).

[illest]

I feel like this is a interesting topic for me as I've just recently really gotten into this and don't really know how to explain it. I'm a 40-year old male and I've been into self bondage for as long as I can remember. Even back then I've always been curious into dressing up but only a handful of times ever tried. The only times I really remember are a couple of occasions as a teen when my folks left me the house to myself for a couple of days. I would usually find one of my mom's dresses that was stuck in a bag or chest so haphazardly that I wouldn't think she'd notice.

A similar deal happened in my 20s when I stayed with my sister a few days. She left for work for the day so I ussd the opportunity to dress up and tie myself up with spare game controllers. For quite a while old controllers and cable wire were my go-tos for tying myself up. I also tried on some wedges she had lying around.

After that, the combination of being older and fear of discovery meant many years without dressing up again. I actually thought it was a phase that was behind me, until near 30 when my ex-gf left for work and I found a bunch of spare clothes in a spare room in her house haphazardly put in a closet. In her absence I dressed up in iirc a white dress and hogtied myself.

Years and a breakup later I finally got my own place but just did self bondage up until I got a new GF. I'm not sure if I was over dressing up then or if the thought simply hadn't dawned on me to order stuff. Not being used to ordering online I was probably afraid of people locally seeing my packages and the stuff I'm ordering.

Time skip to a few years ago I started buying outfits for my now-wife to wear. French Maid outfits, frilly panties, garters, sexy short dresses, schoolgirl outfits, stuff like that. The problem was that she would rarely if ever wear it, so it just sat. She's also the type who's not really into makeup. I started getting envious; I mean if I was a girl with a bomb figure I'd be dressing up all day in all kinds of cute stuff!

One week she went on a trip to Conneticut with her family, so I had a day off with virtually no chance of being discovered by anyone, so I went to work. I wore a schoolgirl outfit I bought for her, schoolgirl panties(!), knee socks, the whole nine. I then realized she had some wigs in a chest untouched for years! It would be the first time I could have hair to match up with the look, as I'm a black male with naturally short hair. I shaved my face, put on the wig and looked in the mirror at awe. I looked freaking amazing! Both my ex and my wife always said they were jealous of my legs and my smooth hands and I saw why. My legs with my knee high socks looked gorgeous. The only issue was my body type, which was less than flattering for the crop top I had on.

So I got a idea. I switched the crop top for the turtleneck sweater in my drawer. In addition, I wore one of my wife's used bras and stuffed them a couple of shirts to give myself double D cups. Now that was definitely an improvement. So I decided what the hell, I should try this while I'm still somewhat young. I got her lipstick and started going over my lips. Then I looked up a YouTube tutorial on eyeliner and started going over my eyes. I used foundation to go over the couple of stubbles I had left on my face. OMG it was like a woman was staring back at me in my bathroom mirror. And when I looked back in the main mirror, it was stunning. For the 1st time I actually saw a full fledged damsel staring back at me. A damsel I could look at in any predicament I imagined!

From there it took off. I started looking at DeviantArt and other sources for ideas. I would see all the feminizatikn scenarios and want to act them out. I ordered concealer, lip liner, fake lashes, body shapers, the whole nine. I even bought heels, which is tough for me. I wear size 14 mens so even the largest ones I found on Amazon were too tight for me. I got almost addicted to how I looked dressed up. Most recently I ordered a cheerleader outfit with "Sissy" on the front and took pictures of myself posing in it. I'm at the stage I'm not so sure if this is just a bondage thing for me or a whole other repressed side of me. I look forward not only to dressing up, but just how girly I can look when I do. It's like a challenge almost.

I feel like I'm in this weird spot that I can't explain. I don't want to change gender; I actually really like being a guy. I really don't like the idea of doing virtually anything with a guy; however doing acts that a girl would generally do to a guy except with another girl has hard crept into my brain recently. I guess trying certain gags dressed up(and having my wife put a certain gag in my mouth while not dressed up once) kinda does that to me. I can't deny though that I really like to "play dress up" as well. It's not one of those things that I feel one and the same any more.

Years ago during my experimenting phase I could wear a dress without doing much else and get my kicks. In my current phase, regular me and dressed me are almost two entirely separate people, almost to where I wonder if I have a split personality. Like now whenever I dress up, I need the full experience. Shaved face, concealer, eyes done(eyeliner, eyeshadow, or if I'm lazy simply fake lashes), lipstick, lipliner, blush, wig, panties, dress/skirt/onesie, knee socks or stockings. I've also recently gotten into taking pictures and video of myself. I'm pretty sure I'm at a point that either I'm going to tell my wife soon or she'll find out soon enough. I messed around and left a maid bracelet in my dirty clothes that she teased me about and every so often I bring up being open to "role reversal" so I think she's at least somewhat connected the dots.

[tiedinbluetights]

Thanks @BlissfulMisery for your thoughtful and insightful reply I'll definitely get back to providing a more detailed response later as several comments deserve a fuller response than a mere thank you.

The main eye-opener for me was the simple line

Overall point being, humiliation does not *have* to be a bad thing.

and the explanation that preceded it. It was definitely not my intent to kink-shame those who are into humiliation play. I myself am into pain-play as a masochist and as pointed-out, that is not a very easy kink to explain to those not into it, so I sort of get why some would like humiliation play. I guess what has bothered me about humiliation play in the context of feminization-play is that I (so I realize it is about my perceptions) consider myself as someone who respects and admires all individuals that I come across (by default, and until or unless they give me reason to distrust and not feel admiration for their being); I would certainly not want to come across as disrespectful to, or otherwise offend, an entire group that positively identifies with femininity, by suggesting that femininity or traditionally feminine behaviours in a man ought to be humiliating.

And thanks @illest for sharing your life experiences on the matter; thanks for being so open. I do hope you will get positive experiences with your wife; play safe and be respectful and open to the concerns that she expresses.

[BlissfulMisery]

I'm at the stage I'm not so sure if this is just a bondage thing for me or a whole other repressed side of me. I look forward not only to dressing up, but just how girly I can look when I do. It's like a challenge almost.

I feel like I'm in this weird spot that I can't explain. I don't want to change gender; I actually really like being a guy.

...

Years ago during my experimenting phase I could wear a dress without doing much else and get my kicks. In my current phase, regular me and dressed me are almost two entirely separate people, almost to where I wonder if I have a split personality. Like now whenever I dress up, I need the full experience. Shaved face, concealer, eyes done(eyeliner, eyeshadow, or if I'm lazy simply fake lashes), lipstick, lipliner, blush, wig, panties, dress/skirt/onesie, knee socks or stockings. I've also recently gotten into taking pictures and video of myself.

I think it's a wonderful thing that you have decided to explore (and share!) this part of yourself - too many people go through their lives never fully expressing themselves because they feel ashamed at their secret thoughts. Personally I have found that the more one does so, the better one feels in the end - of course self-actualization is often a long and complex journey, and I would not claim I have reached the end of that particular road myself.

And I doubt it is a split personality thing - just another facet of yourself that has been neglected for a while.

I really don't like the idea of doing virtually anything with a guy; however doing acts that a girl would generally do to a guy except with another girl has hard crept into my brain recently. I guess trying certain gags dressed up(and having my wife put a certain gag in my mouth while not dressed up once) kinda does that to me.

I think I can make a good guess at the type of gag you are talking about

I'm pretty sure I'm at a point that either I'm going to tell my wife soon or she'll find out soon enough. I messed around and left a maid bracelet in my dirty clothes that she teased me about and every so often I bring up being open to "role reversal" so I think she's at least somewhat connected the dots.

Indeed, I suspect she knows more then she is letting on Although as mentioned by @tiedinbluetights , things like this require care. It can be easy to create problems where there did not need to be any if being overly eager or pushy about things.

I started getting envious; I mean if I was a girl with a bomb figure I'd be dressing up all day in all kinds of cute stuff!

This actually made me think of something else, and preemptive apologies because I am not trying to assign motives specifically to you (those are for you to discover), but:

I suspect some of the desire to cross-dress for men is actually borne of a sort of subconscious jealousy (this is too harsh a word for what I mean, but I cannot think of a better fitting English word right now). Namely the fact that for straight men, women are the 'center of attention'. Society places a strong emphasis on female beauty, and we are constantly told that this is important, special, desired ect. And if you are man, you obviously cannot even participate in that - which can lead to feeling overlooked. As in 'you can *never* be this thing that society covets because of how you were born'.

Therefore, I would posit that cross-dressing can let one experiment with that feeling of being the center of attention, even if it is usually only your own attention, as paradoxical as it might seem. And this can be a great, even empowering feeling, so it is unsurprising someone would want to explore it!

Just a thought, one I will admit is probably not quite fully formed/polished, but hopefully it makes sense to someone

It was definitely not my intent to kink-shame those who are into humiliation play. I myself am into pain-play as a masochist and as pointed-out, that is not a very easy kink to explain to those not into it, so I sort of get why some would like humiliation play.

...

I would certainly not want to come across as disrespectful to, or otherwise offend, an entire group that positively identifies with femininity, by suggesting that femininity or traditionally feminine behaviours in a man ought to be humiliating.

I did not think you were trying to do anything of the sort, but as it often goes, reading things can trigger related thoughts. And I certainly had no intention of trying to 'change your mind' in regards to liking anything like this - that is... not how these sorts of things work

At the end of the day all psychological play is a matter of perception. An easy example is how some people like to be called certain offensive or demeaning names during play - and others would balk at the same. But that is why communication between partners is so vital. One person's 'hot' is anothers trigger after all. And I fully respect being uncomfortable with playing into bothersome societal stereotypes.

My intent with my ramblings was to explore the subject from another angle and show how a male submissive wanting to be humiliated via feminization did not have to stem from looking down on women.

To put it another way: I have occasionally seen the sentiment expressed in various places that straight submissive men who are into the humiliation aspects of 'feminization' are acting out some kind of repressed hatred of women via kink. While I will not claim to know everyone's mind, I really do not think this is true for the vast majority, and in fact I think it is the opposite* - that it comes from wanting to *overcome* or reject such societal norms (either those expected of men or women) by proxy. Society, peer pressure, culture, whatever you want to call it, we all spend our lives being bent and molded by external forces. And being forced to assume a shape one was never meant to... well this can leave psychological scars. Surviving humiliation, much like surviving pain can be a deeply cathartic and sometimes even healing - I would argue it can be a way to iron out those leftover kinks (hah) from the crucible of ones youth.

*Being totally honest, I am not sure we can assign solid motivations to anything like this, and I suspect for many it is just a fun thing without much deeper meaning, but you know...

A corollary to the previous: I will admit it is pet peeve of mine when I see people imply or even outright say that any sort of humiliation or pain play in a D/s relationship is just 'ritualized abuse' when there are drastic differences between the two things and the only way anyone could think they are the same is by completely ignoring all context. Even more frustrating when this is said by otherwise kinky people, who should ostensibly understand the concept of being into things that do not really make much sense on the surface and the stigma that often comes with that.

But I think it is time for me to get off my soapbox.

[illest]

I'm at the stage I'm not so sure if this is just a bondage thing for me or a whole other repressed side of me. I look forward not only to dressing up, but just how girly I can look when I do. It's like a challenge almost.

I feel like I'm in this weird spot that I can't explain. I don't want to change gender; I actually really like being a guy.

...

Years ago during my experimenting phase I could wear a dress without doing much else and get my kicks. In my current phase, regular me and dressed me are almost two entirely separate people, almost to where I wonder if I have a split personality. Like now whenever I dress up, I need the full experience. Shaved face, concealer, eyes done(eyeliner, eyeshadow, or if I'm lazy simply fake lashes), lipstick, lipliner, blush, wig, panties, dress/skirt/onesie, knee socks or stockings. I've also recently gotten into taking pictures and video of myself.

I think it's a wonderful thing that you have decided to explore (and share!) this part of yourself - too many people go through their lives never fully expressing themselves because they feel ashamed at their secret thoughts. Personally I have found that the more one does so, the better one feels in the end - of course self-actualization is often a long and complex journey, and I would not claim I have reached the end of that particular road myself.

And I doubt it is a split personality thing - just another facet of yourself that has been neglected for a while.

I really don't like the idea of doing virtually anything with a guy; however doing acts that a girl would generally do to a guy except with another girl has hard crept into my brain recently. I guess trying certain gags dressed up(and having my wife put a certain gag in my mouth while not dressed up once) kinda does that to me.

I think I can make a good guess at the type of gag you are talking about

I'm pretty sure I'm at a point that either I'm going to tell my wife soon or she'll find out soon enough. I messed around and left a maid bracelet in my dirty clothes that she teased me about and every so often I bring up being open to "role reversal" so I think she's at least somewhat connected the dots.

Indeed, I suspect she knows more then she is letting on Although as mentioned by @tiedinbluetights , things like this require care. It can be easy to create problems where there did not need to be any if being overly eager or pushy about things.

I started getting envious; I mean if I was a girl with a bomb figure I'd be dressing up all day in all kinds of cute stuff!

This actually made me think of something else, and preemptive apologies because I am not trying to assign motives specifically to you (those are for you to discover), but:

I suspect some of the desire to cross-dress for men is actually borne of a sort of subconscious jealousy (this is too harsh a word for what I mean, but I cannot think of a better fitting English word right now). Namely the fact that for straight men, women are the 'center of attention'. Society places a strong emphasis on female beauty, and we are constantly told that this is important, special, desired ect. And if you are man, you obviously cannot even participate in that - which can lead to feeling overlooked. As in 'you can *never* be this thing that society covets because of how you were born'.

Therefore, I would posit that cross-dressing can let one experiment with that feeling of being the center of attention, even if it is usually only your own attention, as paradoxical as it might seem. And this can be a great, even empowering feeling, so it is unsurprising someone would want to explore it!

Just a thought, one I will admit is probably not quite fully formed/polished, but hopefully it makes sense to someone

It was definitely not my intent to kink-shame those who are into humiliation play. I myself am into pain-play as a masochist and as pointed-out, that is not a very easy kink to explain to those not into it, so I sort of get why some would like humiliation play.

...

I would certainly not want to come across as disrespectful to, or otherwise offend, an entire group that positively identifies with femininity, by suggesting that femininity or traditionally feminine behaviours in a man ought to be humiliating.

I did not think you were trying to do anything of the sort, but as it often goes, reading things can trigger related thoughts. And I certainly had no intention of trying to 'change your mind' in regards to liking anything like this - that is... not how these sorts of things work

At the end of the day all psychological play is a matter of perception. An easy example is how some people like to be called certain offensive or demeaning names during play - and others would balk at the same. But that is why communication between partners is so vital. One person's 'hot' is anothers trigger after all. And I fully respect being uncomfortable with playing into bothersome societal stereotypes.

My intent with my ramblings was to explore the subject from another angle and show how a male submissive wanting to be humiliated via feminization did not have to stem from looking down on women.

To put it another way: I have occasionally seen the sentiment expressed in various places that straight submissive men who are into the humiliation aspects of 'feminization' are acting out some kind of repressed hatred of women via kink. While I will not claim to know everyone's mind, I really do not think this is true for the vast majority, and in fact I think it is the opposite* - that it comes from wanting to *overcome* or reject such societal norms (either those expected of men or women) by proxy. Society, peer pressure, culture, whatever you want to call it, we all spend our lives being bent and molded by external forces. And being forced to assume a shape one was never meant to... well this can leave psychological scars. Surviving humiliation, much like surviving pain can be a deeply cathartic and sometimes even healing - I would argue it can be a way to iron out those leftover kinks (hah) from the crucible of ones youth.

*Being totally honest, I am not sure we can assign solid motivations to anything like this, and I suspect for many it is just a fun thing without much deeper meaning, but you know...

A corollary to the previous: I will admit it is pet peeve of mine when I see people imply or even outright say that any sort of humiliation or pain play in a D/s relationship is just 'ritualized abuse' when there are drastic differences between the two things and the only way anyone could think they are the same is by completely ignoring all context. Even more frustrating when this is said by otherwise kinky people, who should ostensibly understand the concept of being into things that do not really make much sense on the surface and the stigma that often comes with that.

But I think it is time for me to get off my soapbox.

I feel like this is one of the best(and most enlightening) takes I've ever heard. For what you've said to my statements particularly I think you have me down to a T.

As a guy, I love competitive stuff. I'm super into wrestling, video games and anime. I'm not muscular, but I'm pretty heavy-handed. And though I'm scared of a lot of stuff, I'm generally the type who's protective and does what needs to be done, whether it's yardwork or fixing stuff around the house.

However that's where my masculinity mostly ends. I'm incredibily soft-spoken for being a 6'2 "tall" guy and reserved. Most of my gfs and even people who I help comments on how soft my features are. Particularly my hands; I've gotten a lot of comments on how soft and tender my hands are. My wife tells me how jealous she is of my legs, and I've gotten comments from both her and my mother-and-law of how pretty and glowy my eyes are.

Whenever I'm around guys and they talk about carsand motorcycles and guns or who's winning in sports, I'm completely lost and out of the conversation. As much as I like playing basketball I could care less who's playing who professionally. When I'm not working, my hobbies are either gaming, music or drawing. Mostly curvaceous women. I like creating women in games and creating outfits and makeup for them. Then I'll wonder how I would look in the same outfit.

I have a generally calm voice but when I get excited or hyped I sound almost squealish. I feel like I'm mature in my outlook of life, but I have childish qualities that I wouldn't show around my testorone-driven colleagues. For example as I type this message I'm flanked by my big Jigglypuff plush and two Kirby plushes. I initially grabbed the Jiggly plush(mine) and told my wife he was my bodyguard so she brought her two Kirbies to my bed to help him

That's not to say it wasn't always there though. Even as far as I could remember as a kid I used to see episodes in cartoon or kid shows where the guy either had to disguise himself as a girl or he would get caught spying on a girl's party and dresses like a girl and I would be jealous. But I had literally no one to talk to or confide into about that. Everybody I knew was heavy-handedly against guys dressing as women except as a comedy thing to ridicule and as someone who already got bullied as a kid for my voice and for "talking white" I wanted none of that. I was awkward and shy; I had literally no female friends until college and even then none I could trust with personal feelings. There wasn't forums like this(that I knew about at least) to discuss this. I pretty much just dealt with it.

In certain wrestling games you could create characters pretty much how you wanted, so I got very good at creating myself and my friends accurately to how they looked in real life. Occasionally I would dress my avatar up in the games and then just not save the result. I also used to look forward to sleep as very occasionally I would either dream of being tied up, dressed up or both. I was used to using my imagination as a escape to do the things I couldn't do in my real life without serious problems.

I swear this is really cathargic for me just to have a forum to discuss this. I feel like these last two years I'm learning more about myself than I ever allowed myself to know.

[Shotrow]

I suspect some of the desire to cross-dress for men is actually borne of a sort of subconscious jealousy (this is too harsh a word for what I mean, but I cannot think of a better fitting English word right now). Namely the fact that for straight men, women are the 'center of attention'. Society places a strong emphasis on female beauty, and we are constantly told that this is important, special, desired ect. And if you are man, you obviously cannot even participate in that - which can lead to feeling overlooked. As in 'you can *never* be this thing that society covets because of how you were born'.

Dang, I can very much relate to this. I have no interest in cross-dressing, but I do really enjoy reversing this dynamic. You can see it in my Riders story for sure, and perhaps hints of it in some of my other stories. I've never been able to articulate this motivation so clearly, so I really appreciate this.

It might even be one of the reasons why I tend to write about younger characters. Because girls are thought to mature faster and are more encouraged to take an interest in romance and relationships at an early age, straight girls sometimes develop an interest in boys before the straight boys develop an interest in girls. Also there's also less of a gap in physical abilities than there is later in life, so males are not as perceived as threatening. So at that stage in life the boys can be the ones that are pursued/coveted.

There was a time when I was pretty solidly on the dominant side of the spectrum. What caused my submissive side to awaken was, in-part, realizing how much I liked the idea of someone getting as excited about the idea of dominating me as I had been about others.

I don't know why cross-dressing doesn't do it for me though. I think I just prefer to subvert the dynamic in other ways than visually. When I'm playing with male-female dynamics I like to keep the lines clear, even if I mix up the roles and expectations of each a bit.

[tiedinbluetights]

...
But I think it is time for me to get off my soapbox.

You are always most welcomed to stand on your soapbox for any of my posts @BlissfulMisery Your comments have been most insightful, open-minded, supportive, and even educational. As a masochist who understands how some forms of physical pain in specific contexts can be liberating and cathartic, I've come to understand via your comments how the psychological pain associated with humiliation can also be cathartic. Not that my wife and I are about to embark on playing with humiliation, but it has been eye-opening.

It was definitely not my intent to kink-shame those who are into humiliation play. I myself am into pain-play as a masochist and as pointed-out, that is not a very easy kink to explain to those not into it, so I sort of get why some would like humiliation play.

...

I would certainly not want to come across as disrespectful to, or otherwise offend, an entire group that positively identifies with femininity, by suggesting that femininity or traditionally feminine behaviours in a man ought to be humiliating.

I did not think you were trying to do anything of the sort, but as it often goes, reading things can trigger related thoughts. And I certainly had no intention of trying to 'change your mind' in regards to liking anything like this - that is... not how these sorts of things work

At the end of the day all psychological play is a matter of perception. An easy example is how some people like to be called certain offensive or demeaning names during play - and others would balk at the same. But that is why communication between partners is so vital. One person's 'hot' is anothers trigger after all. And I fully respect being uncomfortable with playing into bothersome societal stereotypes.

I'm glad I didn't come across as disrespectful I didn't get the impression from the comments that my mind ought to change at all. I was more concerned that by initially presenting humiliation as a bad thing for my wife and I, I was somehow saying that all humiliation-play is a bad thing. If anything, I've always tried to the be supportive and respectful of other people's kinks, so long as they practice those kinks in a safe, sane and consensual way, aware of the risks and with no one getting truly hurt. These exchanges have made me better understand a particular kink that many straight submissive men have.

My intent with my ramblings was to explore the subject from another angle and show how a male submissive wanting to be humiliated via feminization did not have to stem from looking down on women.

To put it another way: I have occasionally seen the sentiment expressed in various places that straight submissive men who are into the humiliation aspects of 'feminization' are acting out some kind of repressed hatred of women via kink. While I will not claim to know everyone's mind, I really do not think this is true for the vast majority, and in fact I think it is the opposite* - that it comes from wanting to *overcome* or reject such societal norms (either those expected of men or women) by proxy. Society, peer pressure, culture, whatever you want to call it, we all spend our lives being bent and molded by external forces. And being forced to assume a shape one was never meant to... well this can leave psychological scars. Surviving humiliation, much like surviving pain can be a deeply cathartic and sometimes even healing - I would argue it can be a way to iron out those leftover kinks (hah) from the crucible of ones youth.

This has jogged some of my less pleasant memories of my childhood, but it all makes much more sense to me now. When I was kid, the following schoolyard rhyme used to be uttered daily during recess

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words shall never hurt me.

Well the truth of it, for me at least, was that while I was never physically bullied, I was verbally so, and those words did hurt, deeply. It explains, to myself at least, why I'm not into humiliation-play, and have focused solely on cross-dressing, or dress-up-play, as being just a pleasurable element to my TUGs, no mockery nor disrespect towards any one. As you mention in your comments to @illest:

Therefore, I would posit that cross-dressing can let one experiment with that feeling of being the center of attention, even if it is usually only your own attention, as paradoxical as it might seem. And this can be a great, even empowering feeling, so it is unsurprising someone would want to explore it!

I do feel indeed that I become the centre of attention, for my wife at least: the muscular male ballet dancer, in skin-tight clothing, who may look silly all tied-up and with a ballet shoe tapped over his nose and gagged mouth, but only in a mutually fun way.

Thanks again for your supportive comments @BlissfulMisery, and thanks @illest and @Shotrow for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I swear this is really cathargic for me just to have a forum to discuss this. I feel like these last two years I'm learning more about myself than I ever allowed myself to know.

I share much the same experience: this forum is a wonderful place, and I hope it continues on forever

[BlissfulMisery]

First off, before I say anything else, I am glad that what I said before resonated with people. Talking about sensitive topics can be risky, but the payoff can be equally significant - a bit like relaxing a psychological muscle you never realized was constantly tensed your whole life.

I feel like I'm mature in my outlook of life, but I have childish qualities that I wouldn't show around my testorone-driven colleagues.

Makes me think of the quote:

“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis

Do not think he was wrong in his outlook.

But I had literally no one to talk to or confide into about that.

It is the worst kind of isolation, to be around and accepted by others, but to then feel like the only way you can maintain that acceptance is to never reveal your 'true self'. 'The worst suffering is done in silence'. A deep psychological pain that cannot help but leave equally deep scars.

I feel like these last two years I'm learning more about myself than I ever allowed myself to know.

Sometimes it feels like that has been the story of my entire life. A constant series of mental knots to untangle, conundrums to solve, going all the way back to childhood. 'Why am I the way I am'. I can still remember some of my vivid daydreams as far back as four, not fully understanding what they meant but being fascinated with them. Doing things like squeezing drops of blood from small wounds. 'Nursing' hurts by aggravating them, playing with the textures of feeling. Imagining hugging something you love/being hugged so hard it hurts - in hindsight, a nascent form of expressing love through pain (perhaps they should add that one to the list of love languages ) combined with possessiveness/being possessed. Which are concepts that make perfect sense through the lens of BDSM. Took me until my teenage years and reading a specific fantasy book series that indirectly explored a lot of kink-adjacent subjects to really start coming to terms and understanding that particular side of myself.

But of course the 'knots' do not ever end - there are always more layers to untangle, more sides of yourself to discover. As I have said before, an endless, but often fulfilling journey of self discovery.

What caused my submissive side to awaken was, in-part, realizing how much I liked the idea of someone getting as excited about the idea of dominating me as I had been about others.

Perhaps not what you literally meant, but I definitely resonate with the idea of 'submission as service'. Not in the sense of obligation of course, but in the sense of helping/providing something for/fulfilling someone you care about. There is something to be said for the fact that it is usually more emotionally fulfilling to do something for someone else then to do it for just yourself.

You are always most welcomed to stand on your soapbox for any of my posts

That line was specifically referring to the last paragraph of my post, which was superfluous. A case of me speaking to an invisible audience that did not actually exist (I doubt anyone reading was not already aware of the things I brought up). Ie, it was more about venting my irritation at other people who are not actually here, rather then adding anything to the conversation. Hence 'soapboxing'.

These exchanges have made me better understand a particular kink that many straight submissive men have.

Glad it struck a cord

I do feel indeed that I become the centre of attention, for my wife at least:

I would argue that a submissive is inherently the center of attention in a scene. It is a paradoxically powerful 'role' to take on because of this, even beyond the obvious of being able to set terms and conditions beforehand. One could even argue that the dominant is actually acting in service of the submissives desires Although in practice (at least in a perfect world) it goes both ways - both working together to create something beautiful.

[tiedinbluetights]

I feel like these last two years I'm learning more about myself than I ever allowed myself to know.

Sometimes it feels like that has been the story of my entire life. A constant series of mental knots to untangle, conundrums to solve, going all the way back to childhood. 'Why am I the way I am'. I can still remember some of my vivid daydreams as far back as four, not fully understanding what they meant but being fascinated with them. Doing things like squeezing drops of blood from small wounds. 'Nursing' hurts by aggravating them, playing with the textures of feeling. Imagining hugging something you love/being hugged so hard it hurts - in hindsight, a nascent form of expressing love through pain (perhaps they should add that one to the list of love languages ) combined with possessiveness/being possessed. Which are concepts that make perfect sense through the lens of BDSM. Took me until my teenage years and reading a specific fantasy book series that indirectly explored a lot of kink-adjacent subjects to really start coming to terms and understanding that particular side of myself.

I can definitely relate to those questions of "why am I the way I am", as well as to the general fascination with certain types of pain: "the textures of feeling." The

Imagining hugging something you love/being hugged so hard it hurts

perfectly sums up my fascination with corseting. For me, it is not about attaining a feminine form at all, but about feeling tightly hugged when tight-laced. I do my own tight-lacing myself, but on the few occasions where it is my wife that does the final thug and ties off the laces, and then applies the locking bondage belt to prevent removal, it becomes a matter of pride for me to endure the painfully "tight hug", which in turn I experience as an extended and inescapable loving hug from my wife, even when she is not right next to me

Likewise, being "forced" into locking high-heels for hours can be painful, yet I know many a woman who endure high-heels all evening at parties. There is definitely a positive pay-off for the pain of wearing heels. In my particular case, I even love to endure being "forced" to have my feet "en pointe", even though I'm not actually standing on my feet in such gear. A number of fetish apparel stores now carry so called "ballet splints" for just this sort of play.

I do get that "love through pain" is not every one's cup of tea, and even on a forum like this, we are probably in a minority, but it is still refreshing to know that we are not alone. For those who don't get us who are into certain types of "pain enjoyment", (and I was, at least for a while, part of those who didn't fully get and appreciate the possibility of enjoying the psychological pain of humiliation), it is important to underline that we do play safe, sane and consensual and also risk aware, with very clear and constant lines of communication (even when gagged); and it is also important to underline that it is NOT all types of pain. Getting caned, slapped, or nipple pinched is pleasurable under ultra-specific contexts with ultra-specific and highly-trusted play partners, while getting even a mild headache or joint pain is just as annoying and irritating and not-consented to as for the most pain-adverse individuals out there

Thanks again to all who share their thoughts and musings on feminization/sissification, and kink-adjacent subjects in this thread.

Don't feel shy to comment or post if you have anything else to add, so long as it respects the site's rules

[illest]

That's interesting as I actually tried a laced corset during one of my sessions yesterday and was incredibly surprised with how much of a feminine form it gave me, even as a novice with tightening it. Not something I would wear for long periods, but hopefully for 2-3 hours for the twice a month I engage it shouldn't have any long term effects?

Also I've been taking pictures and using photo editors to add feminine features and it's really making me want to get back into erotic artwork.

[BlissfulMisery]

Not something I would wear for long periods, but hopefully for 2-3 hours for the twice a month I engage it shouldn't have any long term effects?

Occasional wear will not cause any issues - even frequent wear of a poorly fitted (ie most modern costume corsets) corset would be fine unless doing something completely over the top with the lacing, although of course these tend to be uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time.

A proper fitted 'historical' corset generally has much more shape to it with each bone being individually molded to create a specific profile, and the connecting fabric is designed in such a way as to avoid the bunching up/chafing common to mass produced corsets. To the point where such a corset does not usually compress the ribs regardless of lacing, only the waist, and would be comfortable even if worn the entire day (which makes sense when you remember that corsets used to be primarily an item of underwear). They also do a lot more to actually shape the figure because of this, if going for a specific look.

But I doubt you were planning to shell out for a custom-fitted corset anytime soon, especially if only wearing them as infrequently as you do

[tiedinbluetights]

That's interesting as I actually tried a laced corset during one of my sessions yesterday and was incredibly surprised with how much of a feminine form it gave me, even as a novice with tightening it.

The waist cincher I have is not quite an under-bust corset, and is indeed designed to give a feminine figure. However, corsetry for men, designed to give an Edwardian male-figure, do exist as well. My dream corset would be to get one of those bespoke "punishment" corsets

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Not something I would wear for long periods, but hopefully for 2-3 hours for the twice a month I engage it shouldn't have any long term effects?

I fully agree and support all that @BlissfulMisery mentions in reply to your concerns. There should be no long term effects for the short term wear you describe @illest. However, if you deliberately do tight-lacing for extended periods of time, then yes, there is going to be long-term effects. However, contrary to what the fetish/kink imagery portrays of corsetry, historical corsets were not tortuous nor an instrument of subjugation: corsets were designed to be functional, supportive, undergarments. A properly fitted corset could be comfortably worn all day and not restrict functional movement. That is, the main purpose of a corsets historical had nothing to do with the modern day tight-lacing trend that some follow.

Don't believe all those old Victorian and Edwardian photos! They have mostly been re-touched (yes, even over a hundred years ago, before the advent of digital electronics, photo retouching to create impossible waistlines and figures was common). I wouldn't want to piss-off popular YouTubers on historical garments by being one more insinuator that corsets are for torture It is just for us kinky folk, into bondage, a corset lends itself easily into our kink.

[BlissfulMisery]

However, contrary to what the fetish/kink imagery portrays of corsetry

To be fair, most of what fetish/kink imagery portrays of corsetry is usually as a fashion choice. A fairly fitting (hah) one - a corset is tight and constricting compared to most modern clothing, and in both appearance and feel has a lot of parallels with wearing a collar. While obviously in some cases wearing a corset *is* about discomfort (see your mention of punishment corsets), I have not gotten the impression that this is a majority opinion.

That is, the main purpose of a corsets historical had nothing to do with the modern day tight-lacing trend that some follow.

This is true, but tight-lacing is not a modern trend per say - it was actually practiced back in the day. However, I think our modern perception of just how common it really was is quite skewed by the bias towards sensational articles and editorials from back in that day, as there was actually quite a lively public debate on the issue, with predictably both sides often exaggerating things to the extreme.

It would be something like if you only took the most extreme opinions you could find on the internet today on a given subject, and then assumed that this was 'what everyone thinks'. But of course nobody wants to read about 'reasonable', as that is 'boring', so what gets the most attention when studying any period of history is the most absurd and eye-catching aspects, which is the root of many modern misconceptions and exaggerations.

It does not help that the historical debate about tight-lacing was closely interwoven with at the time emerging ideas of feminism, which made the issue take on a highly political tone, serving to further inflame the rhetoric.

[illest]

So I felt like I needed to bump this topic with an update; I finally told my wife this morning about it, and... ...it was surprisingly cool. She didn't go into panic mode. She didn't scream. She didn't go into "bazillion questions" mode. She did show concern about whether this was something I was doing public, which I assured her this was a "me and now her" thing as far as who knows and who will know. No offense to others but I'm comfortable with just dressing up for me and my wife's amusement.

This forum did help break down my wall as far as telling her so I owe a huge thanks to you guys. Another thing that kind of clued her in was she dressed at work as Mario and kept making remarks about getting me a Peach costume, which I never 100% said no to. I either played along or said she would have to beat me in Mario Party to see that. On a side note that is 100% possible because she not only plays better than any of my friends growing up but also can press my **** in any minigame if I'm not careful. I can't touch her in the fast button pressing minigames and I was for years the neighborhood GOAT in that respect.

But yeah, between the Peach thing and I wound up telling her the maid wristband in the clothes hamper was from me wearing the outfit. She did get a good laugh out of it. I know I'm everywhere with my posts but it started with us talking about roleplay and her sharing how she wanted to dress sexy but she wasn't comfortable wearing sexy stuff because of her self-esteem. Which is crazy to me because she's at least a 9 in my book and was before I landed her. Plus her experience is so similar but different from me. In my case I lacked self-esteem with my masculinity so in dressing up for a while I could forget all that and be someone totally different.

After that we went back to our normal relationship. We talked about checking out cars tomorrow, what I want her to cook tonight when she gets off work being I'll be at work, Mario Party, and our usual routine. She did make a humorous remark about me trying on her clothes(which opens up avenues that in addition to the stuff I buy now I can try her stuff occasionally without worrying if she knows what I'm doing). She also told me the "toys" were fully charged for me with a smile before leaving.

I'm actually kinda excited. At the very least, she knows what I'm doing now so now I don't have to worry(as much) about hiding all the signs of my dressing up from her. At the most, if she actively gets involved and has me dress up, the mental prospect alone has me on Cloud 9. There's been a couple of things I wanted to try before that I was afraid of blowing my cover, like her waist shaper that she never uses and her suspender short overalls. There's also a couple of things I wanted to order but I couldn't because I didn't know how to hide them. I bought heels a couple of times and threw them out for fear of discovery, but I was terrified of ever buying boots. I'm still not quite ready to buy thigh high boots but I definitely feel a lot closer.

At the end of the day though, I just feel like a load's been lifted off of me. I don't believe in keeping secrets from my wife and for years this has been the exception. I'm already thinking about my wife going out of town and actually texting her pics of what I'm up to! This is new for both of us; as much as I enjoy being able to show this side of me I need to ensure to her that the man she married who is the protector of the home and that handles things hasn't gone anywhere.

[BlissfulMisery]

Am very glad to hear it went well!

As you mention, there can be a lot of negative feelings from keeping something like this a secret - when you feel like you cannot share an aspect of yourself with the person you are closest too, it is often quite distressing and can harm the relationship in the long run (obviously there are other considerations, not trying to make a blanket statement about what people should always do).

I finally told my wife this morning about it, and... ...it was surprisingly cool. She didn't go into panic mode. She didn't scream. She didn't go into "bazillion questions" mode.

Honestly, this is a sign of a good relationship The potential reactions you listed (that did not happen) are defensive, sometimes even oppositional ones, borne of when a person feels unbalanced or even threatened by what was said - not a good place to be going to with your partner, especially when you are being open and vulnerable about something.

but it started with us talking about roleplay and her sharing how she wanted to dress sexy but she wasn't comfortable wearing sexy stuff because of her self-esteem. Which is crazy to me because she's at least a 9 in my book and was before I landed her. Plus her experience is so similar but different from me. In my case I lacked self-esteem with my masculinity so in dressing up for a while I could forget all that and be someone totally different.

Unfortunately society can be quite unforgiving when it comes to gender standards/ideals. The dark side of culture putting female beauty on a pedestal (or specifically a very narrow beauty standard) is the (what feels like at least) near ubiquitous presence of self-esteem issues stemming from it.

Ties back to what I mentioned previously with my suspicions about the root cause of certain kinks that might initially seem strange or even paradoxical.

And of course you have already mentioned many of the issues gender standards cause for men. Human nature to try to put things into boxes, and to encourage conformity, because it is more comfortable when everything is 'in it's proper place'. Comfortable because it creates some predictability to fall back on in an otherwise unpredictable and mostly uncontrollable world.

At the end of the day though, I just feel like a load's been lifted off of me. I don't believe in keeping secrets from my wife and for years this has been the exception. I'm already thinking about my wife going out of town and actually texting her pics of what I'm up to! This is new for both of us; as much as I enjoy being able to show this side of me I need to ensure to her that the man she married who is the protector of the home and that handles things hasn't gone anywhere.

Repeating myself (but it deserves to be), but wonderful to hear this!

Not to put a damper on things (and I know I already said this before), but I would be cautious about 'pushing' these things too much. It is great that you have a partner who is understanding and supportive, but remember that this may not necessarily mean that she is interested in directly participating. Of course the light-hearted teasing is a good sign!

[tiedinbluetights]

Glad to hear all that @illest Having understanding and supportive people in our lives is a blessing. And thanks @BlissfulMisery for your insights and wisdom. Glad to see this thread is not dead!

[Nainur]

...
At the end of the day though, I just feel like a load's been lifted off of me. I don't believe in keeping secrets from my wife and for years this has been the exception. I'm already thinking about my wife going out of town and actually texting her pics of what I'm up to! This is new for both of us; as much as I enjoy being able to show this side of me I need to ensure to her that the man she married who is the protector of the home and that handles things hasn't gone anywhere.

Am glad to read this conclusion (?) so far. I can well believe how it felt its being done and told. Now you can look - carefully but positively - into the future.
Maybe you can find a way, maybe to agree to dress for a limited time without obligation to anybody.
I hope you'll do well and maybe someday you can share how's going.

[mserika]

Lots of insightful replies in the post. The replies by @BlissfulMisery really shows that you put a lot of thoughts and read up a lot on the psychology behind these things.

Happy to hear on how the process of being open with the wife ends up being good and she's accepting of it @illest! Speaking from experience, it's just so good to be open with your partner about that kind of thing - because if you can't trust your partner, who else? Seen enough cases of people keeping secrets about themselves to the partner that the resulting discovery was just an overall mess to those involved.

My experience in relation to the topic might be totally different from everyone else, but I thought I would like to share that forced feminization/sissification was something that I went through along me discovering and being more comfortable with who I am?

Growing up when I was going through puberty and such, I found myself having fascination with the whole Damsel in Distress - which led me to discover and experiment with bondage and (what I viewed at that time as) crossdressing. "Wow, I wish it was me that's tied up..."

Sometime much later I find works that would fall under what would be called forced feminization, tho I was not aware of the term at the time. Guys who're forced to wear women's clothing, makeup, wigs, and such, where they are then teased and being done humiliating things to them. At that time I would not properly be able to form concrete explanation why I was attracted to those works, but I can see now with hindsight that those kind of fetish could... offer an 'out' to hide the desire of wanting to present more femininely? "It's not by choice, they are the one forcing me to dress like a girl!"

It's much later that I had picked up cosplaying, and almost instinctively I went for a series where majority of the characters are women. "Well, I just think male characters cosplay are boring!" I'd say. I don't remember exactly when, but I had talked with a friend who I trusted - he is also a cosplayer, and he was also exclusively cosplaying as female characters - where I was trying to figure out if all of this is... well, if there's more to it than just dressing up as female characters because they looks good?

I remember at one point in the conversation that I made a passing remark that I was into the fetish of being forced to be a woman, and surely that it was not possible that I do wish that I could more freely be presenting as a women? It's just a fetish, right?

It would take many years after for me to realize that there IS indeed more to it, and that for a while I had been using that fetish to sublimate my need to express a more feminine gender expression. There is this post on this blog that gives a better explanation on kinks and sublimation, about how some trans have turned to kinks/fetishes instead of addressing their need to be who they are... because, hey, it does feel easier to say "it's just a fetish, right?"

I came across the blog post while I'm already into exploring the question of my gender, and it was a big 'this makes a lot of sense!' moment to me. I think it would have saved me a lot of stress and anxiety if I had realized sooner that even if they're 'just' fetishes, it's not something to be ashamed about. And yes, besides the gender topic I was also keeping secret my interest in bondage for a long time... Finding out communities and others with similar experience or interest really helps to rid of those anxiety.

Anyway... this ended up being longer than what I originally planned! I don't want the takeaway to be that those who're into the fetish - or, hell, those who are crossdressing - are actually questioning their gender! (althoughhhh in some cases, such as mine, it does turn out to be the case LOL) I just wanted to mention how the fetish was for a time being felt like it was a more safe way to explore what I'm feeling than really asking the bigger scary question.

And to get back to the early question post by OP: I never see those fetish as degrading and indicating that women are seen as lesser, and that is more of fulfilling the want to be presenting more femininely without having to say that it was what they wanted. I think it would do us a lot of good if people don't cause a fuss about what people choose to wear and present themselves... but with society being how it is, I guess some of us would have to do with what we can to fulfill that need to be authentic.

[BlissfulMisery]

Lots of insightful replies in the post. The replies by @BlissfulMisery really shows that you put a lot of thoughts and read up a lot on the psychology behind these things.

Glad to hear that you gleaned some value out of my long-winded ramblings!

There is this post on this blog that gives a better explanation on kinks and sublimation, about how some trans have turned to kinks/fetishes instead of addressing their need to be who they are... because, hey, it does feel easier to say "it's just a fetish, right?"

An interesting read. Appreciate you linking it.

And an equally interesting perspective on the topic in your post itself.

I think it would do us a lot of good if people don't cause a fuss about what people choose to wear and present themselves... but with society being how it is

Yes, it would indeed be great if people cared a little less about such things... But unfortunately the desire for a high degree of conformity within social groups is pretty much hard-wired into a significant portion of the population.