Philip : 02 - Comments on stories' believability (Discussion)
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:04 pm
Philip's stories
02 - Comments on stories' believability
Story index at the bottom
By Philip
Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 07:39:45 AM
Believability
Half of the stories anymore are just plain unbelievable. So I'm going to point some things out in hope that I'll get to read better stories. A lot of the writers who write stories that I don't like are really good writers, it's just that their inspiration sucks.
The first thing I don't like is that the kids in these stories aren't really kids, they're just adults who have somehow become 12 years old again.
Kids are mostly motivated by fun, and only to a small extent by sexual feelings. Adults are mostly motivated by sexual feelings, and generally have lost their ability to perceive what fun is. Stories on this site tend not to reflect this, instead I read stories about 10 and 12 year olds with the motivations and desires of adults. When they tie eachother up, they may not make love to eachother, but they're doing it for obviously sexual reasons none the less. They don't do anything fun while tied up either, because, like an adult, the sexual aspects are all that they desire.
Kids don't strip down to their underwear for tie up games. They don't follow up with clothespins on their nipples. I don't understand why that isn't obvious to everyone.
Kids, being mostly interested in fun, will also involve something fun in a tie up all of the time. ALL OF THE TIME. Maybe the tie up will be part of a fun game. Maybe the fun is in tying eachother up. Maybe the fun is in trying to escape. Maybe the fun is in just playing pretend, like a game of cops and robbers.
However, the fun definately isn't in leaving eachother tied up for long times, because there's nothing fun about not being able to do anything for a long time, while your wrists become sore from a small but constant pressure, and your limbs become sore from being in the same position for hours. It's boring, painful, and generally sucks, and only adults who've lost their ability to perceive fun altogether will enjoy it.
Never in my experience as kid did I ever see a tie up where the kids doing the tying wern't absolutely devoted to making sure the kid who was tied up was having fun. There's good reason for this of course, kids like their friends, and want them to continue being their friends. Kids get upset and decide to stop being friends with other kids for the silliest of reasons, and the kids doing the tying know this. Should they find someone who will let them tie them up, they're not going to try to make them hate them.
Every time I was tied up as a kid I was always asked about everything. When I was eight and in handcuffs, two other kids said to me "Hey, there's this cabinet over by our house, can we lock you in it?" We went over to look at it, with me still in handcuffs, I looked at it and told them that I didn't like the spiders inside, although my real concern was that I had keys hidden where they usually locked me up, and no way to get out of this cabinet. Since I said no, they didn't lock me in it, and instead took me over and locked me in my club house like usual. With two of them and me with my hands behind my back, they could have locked me in it, but they liked playing with me, and so they were nice to me.
And they were always around too. They didn't run off and leave me for several hours, they'd run off and leave me for two minutes at the most. They'd also not keep me locked up for more than five minutes before releasing me, allowing me to go and pretend to rob a bank again so that they could pretend to arrest me again. It's because we were interested in having fun, and the fun was in the capturing and in being captured, not in being locked up all day, and not in leaving a friend locked up for six hours and having to go find something to do without them in the meantime.
When I was older I had another friend who would tie me up. When I was tied up he would constantly ask if I wanted untied, and it wasn't until after some time that he learned that I didn't and would wait until I asked to be untied. Even so, if I didn't try to escape, he'd get bored and untie me because he was bored. I would ask him to gag me with a sock, but he wouldn't. His objection was that he wouldn't be able to talk to me if he did.
I've never known of any kid to be tied up against his will, with the exception of one friend who was almost handcuffed against his will, except that I had the handcuffs and wouldn't give them to my friends.
The thing here is that this particular kid I know wouldn't have gotten upset about it, he'd been friends for years with the other kids, and I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to do it if they didn't know that he'd not be mad at them for it.
We'd tied him up before and he was extremely okay with it. We tied his hands behind his back, then decided to go outside and put his coat over him. We went outside and then as a joke I took his coat off of him, but he said "that's okay, I don't need it" and so we went for a walk in the woods, in the cold, him with no coat, and with his hands tied behind his back, and he never complained. Had I thought about it, I would have realized that after something like that, there's no way he'd get upset about being handcuffed for a few minutes.
Had he continued to yell after being handcuffed, I'm sure they would have let him go. After all, they were his friends.
So the way I see it, there's just some things kids don't do to kids that are tied up: They aren't mean to them, they don't tease them excessively, they don't remove their clothes, they don't force them to run home in their underwear. They don't tie them up for long periods of time, they don't run off and leave them alone, and they don't torture them with clothespins, itching powder, and hell, I've never even seen tickling. With kids, tie up games are entirely about having fun for all involved, especially anyone who's tied up.
Please just think about how kids think when deciding what kids are going to do in your stories. My favorite stories are the ones that are completely believable. When I run into something that I can't believe, it just ruins it.
Now, on to other things I can't stand to read.
The number one thing that irritates me is stuff like: And then I said "what do you think you are MMMMMPPHH!!!" This irritates me in several ways.
First, MMMMMPPHH isn't a word. It's just silly. It's always capital letters, it's in every other story, the characters always proceed with their sentence as if it's not going to be cut off. If you saw someone coming at you with a gag, wouldn't you modify your sentence so that it's completed before they get the gag on you? I sure would.
Second, is everyone really so unimaginative that they can't think of any other way to gag someone? Is it impossible to imagine someone discussing wether or not a gag is allowed? (These are kids who aren't out to make their friends hate them, after all.) Is it impossible to imagine a captor who allows their captive to finish their sentence before gagging them, or even gags them while the captor is speaking?
Then there's "silver duct tape." Everyone knows what color duct tape is, and worst of all, it's not what most people would call silver. Using the phrase "silver duct tape" just indicates that your story is nothing but a rehash of other stories from this site. Just say "duct tape." And hell, why not "masking tape" or "electrical tape" or "scotch tape?" Kids don't always have duct tape available, you know. When I was a kid I got yelled at for wasting tape, so I always used rope anyway.
Then there's this joke about boy scouts spending 100% of their time tying eachother up without adult supervision. Please, if you wern't in the boy scouts as a kid, don't write about it. You just make yourself look like an idiot.
There's also a popular theme where kids get together to have a little class on tying people up. All the kids sit quietly and listen to the teacher kid as he instructs them for hours on the many masterful ways he knows to tie up other kids. This is just so unbelievable I want to cry every time I read about it.
The closest reality could ever come to this would be a few friends having a sleepover and tying eachother up, with one kid happening to be much better at it than the others, and the other kids ocassionally taking notice of how he does things. They'd never pay constant attention. They'd never let him go through hours of course material, and he'd never attempt to. Learning and teaching isn't any fun, it's work, and remember that kids are out to have fun.
Am I the only person who knows that you can't tickle people for hours because they become immune to it after a while?
I hate reading about someone losing conciousness and not being taken to the hospital. Even if it were possible for adults to somehow safely make eachother lose conciousness in a tie up game, I don't believe kids would go for it. It seems like a really mean thing to do, making someone lose conciousness and then tying them up, and kids aren't into being mean when playing tie up games. Kids are all about making sure that their victims are having fun, and if they are having fun, then they don't need to make them lose conciousness in order to tie them up.
The stuff that passes for inescapable gags is insane. Next time you're tepted to think that shoving a handkerchief in someone's mouth and tying another around their head is enough to gag someone, try it on yourself. You will gag yourself, but only in the gagging on something in your throat sense, and you'll be talking again in no more than three seconds. Same if you use tape, even if you wrap it around the head several times, although in that case it might take 15 seconds. And running a string through a ball, that doesn't work either. The only thing I've found that works for me is to run tape vertically on my head, so that my jaw can't open, and then around my head to cover my mouth. But if I see a story mention that, I'm going to puke, then hunt down the writer and kill them.
Kids don't need effective gags, because they're playing. They put tape on their mouths and they try to keep it from falling off because they don't want it to, because they're playing. It's a game, it's fun, and so it doesn't have to be impossible to remove. Plus since it can come off, if the kid is in trouble, they can remove it even without their hands, and if that's not good enough for you, just have your character pretend that a single strip of tape is effective because they fear if they remove it that they'll get something that really is effective.
I have a stuffed up nose 50% of the time, but that never seems to be the case in any of these stories. Plus, you have to open your mouth to hyperventilate, because your nose isn't big enough. Yet I read all sorts of stories about fighting with a kid to tie them up, and then gagging them completely, and yet they don't pass out from lack of oxygen. It's just another indication that a story is fiction.
"He was ready for revenge..." Every time I see that, I think, no, it's more like "He was ready to go home and never speak to me again." It's just silly. A kid's been tied up against their will for hours, and when they get out they're going to seek revenge? Hell no, they're going to seek to make sure that never happens to them again.
Every tie up I witnessed as a kid was with the permission of the one being tied up, yet reading this board one would get the impression that kids are tied up against thier will the majority of the time.
Does no one remember what was it was like to be a kid? It's all about pretending. You let someone tie you up, and then pretend like you can't escape, even though you know all you have to do is ask. It's not about having no control and being tortured, it's about having no control and still having lots of fun.
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 01:46:27 PM
More Complaining
I do like some of the stories here, I like the believable ones. Thankfully fiction hasn't yet taken over completely, but it's working on it. When I first found this site years ago, every story was about friends playing tie up games, no one was really mean to eachother, no one took their clothes off, no one had to get their parents out of the house for what they were about to do. Now we've got kids camping in the woods alone so that they can nipple torture eachother.
What made J-Mac so bad wasn't so much that every story involved "tighty whities" as it was that his stories were so offensively unbelievable. (Of course, that was partly due to the constant mentioning of "tighty whities" but there was more than that.) No one could stretch their mind into believing that the events he described ever occured.
People come here wanting believable stories. If they didn't want believable stories, they could find much better fiction on the rest of asstr.org or in the nifty archive. The fiction posted here is just rehashed versions of previous fiction posted here, there's rarely ever an origional idea, and it's never put together in a believable way, but instead it's just put together the same way previous stories have been.
So someone posts something just barely believable, and someone else incorporates it into their story, just making it slightly less believable, and a year later we find that everyone everywhere is on the swim team and they always make sure to wear their speedos when tying eachother up. First there's a small little tie up in the boy scouts, and a year later the boy scouts is an unsupervised organization devoted to bondage.
Then one story has someone held captive for an hour, so the next story an hour and a half, the next one two hours, the next one overnight, the next one for 24 hours, then next one a weekend, and before you know it we've got someone's little brother being held prisioner for a full 14 days.
Everyone's just trying to make their story more extreme than the last, and it sucks really bad. At the same time people with real true stories probably read this stuff and decide not to post since their stories don't measure up. Others throw fiction such as chloroform into an otherwise perfectly good story simply because they're afraid their story won't be good enough without some embelishing.
I'm not against fiction, I just wish the difference between the fiction and non-fiction on this board weren't as clear as the difference between night and day.
That's why I made that post. Not to tell those people to quit posting, but to point out why their stories are so unbelievable. I don't think they're aware that their gagging methods don't work. I don't think they're aware just how sore the body gets after being in a hogtie for 4 hours, let alone 24. I don't think they have any idea what really goes on in the boy scouts.
I don't think they've really thought about what effect tying up a kid who clearly doesn't want to be tied up can have. I don't think they've ever thought about wether or not anyone could be so cruel. You have to think, the kid would be kicking and screaming, certainly even crying, and stuck there with nothing to do but wonder why anyone would ever be so mean to them while suffering with the pain from the ropes that are no doubt a lot tighter than necessary due to his lack of cooperation and causing more pain due to his trying to escape, and all the while he just hates everyone more and more the more he thinks about it. Tying up a kid who doesn't want to be tied up is really fucking mean, yet it happens all the time in stories here, and it's portrayed as if there's nothing wrong with it.
Most of all, I don't think they realize that there are ways to make their stories better besides removing more clothes, making tie-ups last longer, and making the captives be held even moreso against their will. It's hard to think up a good imaginative believable origional story, but that's what good writers do. The bad ones just rehash old stories, insert their favorite fetish, and multiply the length of the tie-ups by two. It's really pointless because everyone can do that for themselves in their heads.
Origional stories are much better, even if everyone's fully clothed, seeks permission three times before tying someone up, and lets them go as soon as they ask.
If people want to post stories about kids who's parents are gone for two weeks, so they lock their little brother in the basement, strip him to his underwear, tie him to a chair, put clothespins on his nipples and make him drink his own pee (just wait, it hasn't happened yet, but I think we're only a few months away) then I think they should be allowed to post them. That's what freedom of speech is. I just think they need to go start their own dreambook somewhere rather than post that sort of thing in a forum that says in so many places that it isn't the place for that sort of thing.
If this downhill slide continues then I see it as only a matter of time before this forum is nothing but child abuse stories and someone has to start a new forum for "stories of childhood tie-up games."
Note from Canuck: see posts below for continuation this discussion
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 01:47:08 PM
Phillip-while your opinions are valid and have been noted, your experiences are not the only valid tie up experiences in the known universe. I've been male for a long time, and thus know that male friendships are often based on shared cruelty, the trading of insults, pranks, and other such meanness. Not all of them, mind you, but enough that they are not unheard of. I'm sure your experiences have led you to be unable to believe these relationships, but the simple fact remains that they exist.
Z
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 02:42:46 PM
To Phillip
I agree with you about early childhood tie up games, but after the age of 12 or 13, those opinnions are not true. I believe this site is for childhood and teenhood tie up games, is it not?
Slytherin's Finest
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 04:31:18 PM
I like a lot of what you're saying Philip. One thing that stuck out to me:
"Kids are mostly motivated by fun, and only to a small extent by sexual feelings. Adults are mostly motivated by sexual feelings, and generally have lost their ability to perceive what fun is. Stories on this site tend not to reflect this, instead I read stories about 10 and 12 year olds with the motivations and desires of adults. When they tie eachother up, they may not make love to eachother, but they're doing it for obviously sexual reasons none the less. They don't do anything fun while tied up either, because, like an adult, the sexual aspects are all that they desire."
When I was first into tying up, I saw it as dramatic, and yet I only wanted it to happen to characters I found cute or endearing to some degree, which tended not to be adult males but instead girls (and boys), and women.
However, when I did a couple of little "tie up" games with some girls I knew at the age of 11, even though I found them attractive, I also tried to make a game or some sort of role-play out of it, like being a prisoner. Though I DID have sexual feelings at 11 (I hit puberty early), I still wanted a context and to make it somehow fun for them as well as me.
You're very right that kids are primarily motivated by fun - they have sexual feelings, as I know I sure as hell did, but they're on the backburner in their lives. Many of the stories reflect this, but many others do not.
And in many of the stories, there are 11 year olds who act as though they're 14 or 15. Let's not forget that kids are inexperienced and naive - moreso than teenagers. There are a lot of really cute stories here, and I believe Canuck has made it clear that he doesn't mind fiction, but let's at least make the fiction believable.
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 07:39:06 PM
Not a Story
Quote: "Though I DID have sexual feelings at 11 (I hit puberty early), I still wanted a context and to make it somehow fun for them as well as me."
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you.
Another thing I didn't mention, but you got me thinking about is the selection of the captive. In my younger years I thought about tying up pleanty of kids, but they were always kids that I liked, and never my enemies. I think that's why reality has kids being nice to the captive. The kids they'd like to be mean to aren't the ones that they'd like to tie up.
Quote: "but after the age of 12 or 13, those opinnions are not true."
Interest in fun doesn't disappear at the age of puberty. If teenagers can have a tie up and have fun at the same time, then that's what they'll do.
Also, teenager's entire world revolves around what other teenagers think of them. They want their friends to think that they're tying them up because it's something fun to do so that they don't become suspicious, and if it really is something fun to do, then that's just icing on the cake.
Kids post here all the time asking "how can I get one of my friends to let me tie them up." Obviously the easiest way is to simply ask if you can tie them up, but we all know why they don't do that.
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 11:11:45 PM
Philip
Excellent,honest & true comments Philip, getting back to the reasons the site was created. Pay no attention to the flames you are just speaking the truth & a lot of people don't like that.
But it does show up all those 'true' stories as so fake & false of people being so tightly hogtied for hours on end & that they would sure need urgent medical attention after being untied
Clayton
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 11:27:40 PM
Philip, must you analyze every single story and share your opinion? If you are so against adults posting stories as "kids", then what is an ADULT like you doing here anyway?
I'm not against fiction, in fact it probably may be better than the real thing. I think everyone would be happier if they'd lable their story with a TRUE STORY / FICTIONAL STORY tag.
darkshadow74656
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 05:43:05 AM
Comments
--I think some Storys are really hard to Belive, but I think most are really True.I have tried tied up with Saran Wrap and or Duct Tape.The Wrapped Person was between 7-14.We have Tied sometimes about more then 4 Hours.I was HOT !! But it was also True ! We have also tried Vaccum Games.And it was awnesome.But True...
Greez Jester
Jester
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 05:45:58 PM
Phillip nailed it on the head. I completely concur.
As a former boy scout, I can testify that the only reason we played these types of games was because it was fun. We would never leave someone to be by themselves.
Joe
puhoudini@yahoo.com
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 08:02:03 PM
again
just one thing i forgot. the "word" MMMPH is used to give the reader a better visual of whats going on. it works, so leave it alone.
lord nikon
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Philip's stories
Index of all stories in the "Archive for Everyone" section
02 - Comments on stories' believability
Story index at the bottom
By Philip
Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 07:39:45 AM
Believability
Half of the stories anymore are just plain unbelievable. So I'm going to point some things out in hope that I'll get to read better stories. A lot of the writers who write stories that I don't like are really good writers, it's just that their inspiration sucks.
The first thing I don't like is that the kids in these stories aren't really kids, they're just adults who have somehow become 12 years old again.
Kids are mostly motivated by fun, and only to a small extent by sexual feelings. Adults are mostly motivated by sexual feelings, and generally have lost their ability to perceive what fun is. Stories on this site tend not to reflect this, instead I read stories about 10 and 12 year olds with the motivations and desires of adults. When they tie eachother up, they may not make love to eachother, but they're doing it for obviously sexual reasons none the less. They don't do anything fun while tied up either, because, like an adult, the sexual aspects are all that they desire.
Kids don't strip down to their underwear for tie up games. They don't follow up with clothespins on their nipples. I don't understand why that isn't obvious to everyone.
Kids, being mostly interested in fun, will also involve something fun in a tie up all of the time. ALL OF THE TIME. Maybe the tie up will be part of a fun game. Maybe the fun is in tying eachother up. Maybe the fun is in trying to escape. Maybe the fun is in just playing pretend, like a game of cops and robbers.
However, the fun definately isn't in leaving eachother tied up for long times, because there's nothing fun about not being able to do anything for a long time, while your wrists become sore from a small but constant pressure, and your limbs become sore from being in the same position for hours. It's boring, painful, and generally sucks, and only adults who've lost their ability to perceive fun altogether will enjoy it.
Never in my experience as kid did I ever see a tie up where the kids doing the tying wern't absolutely devoted to making sure the kid who was tied up was having fun. There's good reason for this of course, kids like their friends, and want them to continue being their friends. Kids get upset and decide to stop being friends with other kids for the silliest of reasons, and the kids doing the tying know this. Should they find someone who will let them tie them up, they're not going to try to make them hate them.
Every time I was tied up as a kid I was always asked about everything. When I was eight and in handcuffs, two other kids said to me "Hey, there's this cabinet over by our house, can we lock you in it?" We went over to look at it, with me still in handcuffs, I looked at it and told them that I didn't like the spiders inside, although my real concern was that I had keys hidden where they usually locked me up, and no way to get out of this cabinet. Since I said no, they didn't lock me in it, and instead took me over and locked me in my club house like usual. With two of them and me with my hands behind my back, they could have locked me in it, but they liked playing with me, and so they were nice to me.
And they were always around too. They didn't run off and leave me for several hours, they'd run off and leave me for two minutes at the most. They'd also not keep me locked up for more than five minutes before releasing me, allowing me to go and pretend to rob a bank again so that they could pretend to arrest me again. It's because we were interested in having fun, and the fun was in the capturing and in being captured, not in being locked up all day, and not in leaving a friend locked up for six hours and having to go find something to do without them in the meantime.
When I was older I had another friend who would tie me up. When I was tied up he would constantly ask if I wanted untied, and it wasn't until after some time that he learned that I didn't and would wait until I asked to be untied. Even so, if I didn't try to escape, he'd get bored and untie me because he was bored. I would ask him to gag me with a sock, but he wouldn't. His objection was that he wouldn't be able to talk to me if he did.
I've never known of any kid to be tied up against his will, with the exception of one friend who was almost handcuffed against his will, except that I had the handcuffs and wouldn't give them to my friends.
The thing here is that this particular kid I know wouldn't have gotten upset about it, he'd been friends for years with the other kids, and I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to do it if they didn't know that he'd not be mad at them for it.
We'd tied him up before and he was extremely okay with it. We tied his hands behind his back, then decided to go outside and put his coat over him. We went outside and then as a joke I took his coat off of him, but he said "that's okay, I don't need it" and so we went for a walk in the woods, in the cold, him with no coat, and with his hands tied behind his back, and he never complained. Had I thought about it, I would have realized that after something like that, there's no way he'd get upset about being handcuffed for a few minutes.
Had he continued to yell after being handcuffed, I'm sure they would have let him go. After all, they were his friends.
So the way I see it, there's just some things kids don't do to kids that are tied up: They aren't mean to them, they don't tease them excessively, they don't remove their clothes, they don't force them to run home in their underwear. They don't tie them up for long periods of time, they don't run off and leave them alone, and they don't torture them with clothespins, itching powder, and hell, I've never even seen tickling. With kids, tie up games are entirely about having fun for all involved, especially anyone who's tied up.
Please just think about how kids think when deciding what kids are going to do in your stories. My favorite stories are the ones that are completely believable. When I run into something that I can't believe, it just ruins it.
Now, on to other things I can't stand to read.
The number one thing that irritates me is stuff like: And then I said "what do you think you are MMMMMPPHH!!!" This irritates me in several ways.
First, MMMMMPPHH isn't a word. It's just silly. It's always capital letters, it's in every other story, the characters always proceed with their sentence as if it's not going to be cut off. If you saw someone coming at you with a gag, wouldn't you modify your sentence so that it's completed before they get the gag on you? I sure would.
Second, is everyone really so unimaginative that they can't think of any other way to gag someone? Is it impossible to imagine someone discussing wether or not a gag is allowed? (These are kids who aren't out to make their friends hate them, after all.) Is it impossible to imagine a captor who allows their captive to finish their sentence before gagging them, or even gags them while the captor is speaking?
Then there's "silver duct tape." Everyone knows what color duct tape is, and worst of all, it's not what most people would call silver. Using the phrase "silver duct tape" just indicates that your story is nothing but a rehash of other stories from this site. Just say "duct tape." And hell, why not "masking tape" or "electrical tape" or "scotch tape?" Kids don't always have duct tape available, you know. When I was a kid I got yelled at for wasting tape, so I always used rope anyway.
Then there's this joke about boy scouts spending 100% of their time tying eachother up without adult supervision. Please, if you wern't in the boy scouts as a kid, don't write about it. You just make yourself look like an idiot.
There's also a popular theme where kids get together to have a little class on tying people up. All the kids sit quietly and listen to the teacher kid as he instructs them for hours on the many masterful ways he knows to tie up other kids. This is just so unbelievable I want to cry every time I read about it.
The closest reality could ever come to this would be a few friends having a sleepover and tying eachother up, with one kid happening to be much better at it than the others, and the other kids ocassionally taking notice of how he does things. They'd never pay constant attention. They'd never let him go through hours of course material, and he'd never attempt to. Learning and teaching isn't any fun, it's work, and remember that kids are out to have fun.
Am I the only person who knows that you can't tickle people for hours because they become immune to it after a while?
I hate reading about someone losing conciousness and not being taken to the hospital. Even if it were possible for adults to somehow safely make eachother lose conciousness in a tie up game, I don't believe kids would go for it. It seems like a really mean thing to do, making someone lose conciousness and then tying them up, and kids aren't into being mean when playing tie up games. Kids are all about making sure that their victims are having fun, and if they are having fun, then they don't need to make them lose conciousness in order to tie them up.
The stuff that passes for inescapable gags is insane. Next time you're tepted to think that shoving a handkerchief in someone's mouth and tying another around their head is enough to gag someone, try it on yourself. You will gag yourself, but only in the gagging on something in your throat sense, and you'll be talking again in no more than three seconds. Same if you use tape, even if you wrap it around the head several times, although in that case it might take 15 seconds. And running a string through a ball, that doesn't work either. The only thing I've found that works for me is to run tape vertically on my head, so that my jaw can't open, and then around my head to cover my mouth. But if I see a story mention that, I'm going to puke, then hunt down the writer and kill them.
Kids don't need effective gags, because they're playing. They put tape on their mouths and they try to keep it from falling off because they don't want it to, because they're playing. It's a game, it's fun, and so it doesn't have to be impossible to remove. Plus since it can come off, if the kid is in trouble, they can remove it even without their hands, and if that's not good enough for you, just have your character pretend that a single strip of tape is effective because they fear if they remove it that they'll get something that really is effective.
I have a stuffed up nose 50% of the time, but that never seems to be the case in any of these stories. Plus, you have to open your mouth to hyperventilate, because your nose isn't big enough. Yet I read all sorts of stories about fighting with a kid to tie them up, and then gagging them completely, and yet they don't pass out from lack of oxygen. It's just another indication that a story is fiction.
"He was ready for revenge..." Every time I see that, I think, no, it's more like "He was ready to go home and never speak to me again." It's just silly. A kid's been tied up against their will for hours, and when they get out they're going to seek revenge? Hell no, they're going to seek to make sure that never happens to them again.
Every tie up I witnessed as a kid was with the permission of the one being tied up, yet reading this board one would get the impression that kids are tied up against thier will the majority of the time.
Does no one remember what was it was like to be a kid? It's all about pretending. You let someone tie you up, and then pretend like you can't escape, even though you know all you have to do is ask. It's not about having no control and being tortured, it's about having no control and still having lots of fun.
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 01:46:27 PM
More Complaining
I do like some of the stories here, I like the believable ones. Thankfully fiction hasn't yet taken over completely, but it's working on it. When I first found this site years ago, every story was about friends playing tie up games, no one was really mean to eachother, no one took their clothes off, no one had to get their parents out of the house for what they were about to do. Now we've got kids camping in the woods alone so that they can nipple torture eachother.
What made J-Mac so bad wasn't so much that every story involved "tighty whities" as it was that his stories were so offensively unbelievable. (Of course, that was partly due to the constant mentioning of "tighty whities" but there was more than that.) No one could stretch their mind into believing that the events he described ever occured.
People come here wanting believable stories. If they didn't want believable stories, they could find much better fiction on the rest of asstr.org or in the nifty archive. The fiction posted here is just rehashed versions of previous fiction posted here, there's rarely ever an origional idea, and it's never put together in a believable way, but instead it's just put together the same way previous stories have been.
So someone posts something just barely believable, and someone else incorporates it into their story, just making it slightly less believable, and a year later we find that everyone everywhere is on the swim team and they always make sure to wear their speedos when tying eachother up. First there's a small little tie up in the boy scouts, and a year later the boy scouts is an unsupervised organization devoted to bondage.
Then one story has someone held captive for an hour, so the next story an hour and a half, the next one two hours, the next one overnight, the next one for 24 hours, then next one a weekend, and before you know it we've got someone's little brother being held prisioner for a full 14 days.
Everyone's just trying to make their story more extreme than the last, and it sucks really bad. At the same time people with real true stories probably read this stuff and decide not to post since their stories don't measure up. Others throw fiction such as chloroform into an otherwise perfectly good story simply because they're afraid their story won't be good enough without some embelishing.
I'm not against fiction, I just wish the difference between the fiction and non-fiction on this board weren't as clear as the difference between night and day.
That's why I made that post. Not to tell those people to quit posting, but to point out why their stories are so unbelievable. I don't think they're aware that their gagging methods don't work. I don't think they're aware just how sore the body gets after being in a hogtie for 4 hours, let alone 24. I don't think they have any idea what really goes on in the boy scouts.
I don't think they've really thought about what effect tying up a kid who clearly doesn't want to be tied up can have. I don't think they've ever thought about wether or not anyone could be so cruel. You have to think, the kid would be kicking and screaming, certainly even crying, and stuck there with nothing to do but wonder why anyone would ever be so mean to them while suffering with the pain from the ropes that are no doubt a lot tighter than necessary due to his lack of cooperation and causing more pain due to his trying to escape, and all the while he just hates everyone more and more the more he thinks about it. Tying up a kid who doesn't want to be tied up is really fucking mean, yet it happens all the time in stories here, and it's portrayed as if there's nothing wrong with it.
Most of all, I don't think they realize that there are ways to make their stories better besides removing more clothes, making tie-ups last longer, and making the captives be held even moreso against their will. It's hard to think up a good imaginative believable origional story, but that's what good writers do. The bad ones just rehash old stories, insert their favorite fetish, and multiply the length of the tie-ups by two. It's really pointless because everyone can do that for themselves in their heads.
Origional stories are much better, even if everyone's fully clothed, seeks permission three times before tying someone up, and lets them go as soon as they ask.
If people want to post stories about kids who's parents are gone for two weeks, so they lock their little brother in the basement, strip him to his underwear, tie him to a chair, put clothespins on his nipples and make him drink his own pee (just wait, it hasn't happened yet, but I think we're only a few months away) then I think they should be allowed to post them. That's what freedom of speech is. I just think they need to go start their own dreambook somewhere rather than post that sort of thing in a forum that says in so many places that it isn't the place for that sort of thing.
If this downhill slide continues then I see it as only a matter of time before this forum is nothing but child abuse stories and someone has to start a new forum for "stories of childhood tie-up games."
Note from Canuck: see posts below for continuation this discussion
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 01:47:08 PM
Phillip-while your opinions are valid and have been noted, your experiences are not the only valid tie up experiences in the known universe. I've been male for a long time, and thus know that male friendships are often based on shared cruelty, the trading of insults, pranks, and other such meanness. Not all of them, mind you, but enough that they are not unheard of. I'm sure your experiences have led you to be unable to believe these relationships, but the simple fact remains that they exist.
Z
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 02:42:46 PM
To Phillip
I agree with you about early childhood tie up games, but after the age of 12 or 13, those opinnions are not true. I believe this site is for childhood and teenhood tie up games, is it not?
Slytherin's Finest
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 04:31:18 PM
I like a lot of what you're saying Philip. One thing that stuck out to me:
"Kids are mostly motivated by fun, and only to a small extent by sexual feelings. Adults are mostly motivated by sexual feelings, and generally have lost their ability to perceive what fun is. Stories on this site tend not to reflect this, instead I read stories about 10 and 12 year olds with the motivations and desires of adults. When they tie eachother up, they may not make love to eachother, but they're doing it for obviously sexual reasons none the less. They don't do anything fun while tied up either, because, like an adult, the sexual aspects are all that they desire."
When I was first into tying up, I saw it as dramatic, and yet I only wanted it to happen to characters I found cute or endearing to some degree, which tended not to be adult males but instead girls (and boys), and women.
However, when I did a couple of little "tie up" games with some girls I knew at the age of 11, even though I found them attractive, I also tried to make a game or some sort of role-play out of it, like being a prisoner. Though I DID have sexual feelings at 11 (I hit puberty early), I still wanted a context and to make it somehow fun for them as well as me.
You're very right that kids are primarily motivated by fun - they have sexual feelings, as I know I sure as hell did, but they're on the backburner in their lives. Many of the stories reflect this, but many others do not.
And in many of the stories, there are 11 year olds who act as though they're 14 or 15. Let's not forget that kids are inexperienced and naive - moreso than teenagers. There are a lot of really cute stories here, and I believe Canuck has made it clear that he doesn't mind fiction, but let's at least make the fiction believable.
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 07:39:06 PM
Not a Story
Quote: "Though I DID have sexual feelings at 11 (I hit puberty early), I still wanted a context and to make it somehow fun for them as well as me."
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you.
Another thing I didn't mention, but you got me thinking about is the selection of the captive. In my younger years I thought about tying up pleanty of kids, but they were always kids that I liked, and never my enemies. I think that's why reality has kids being nice to the captive. The kids they'd like to be mean to aren't the ones that they'd like to tie up.
Quote: "but after the age of 12 or 13, those opinnions are not true."
Interest in fun doesn't disappear at the age of puberty. If teenagers can have a tie up and have fun at the same time, then that's what they'll do.
Also, teenager's entire world revolves around what other teenagers think of them. They want their friends to think that they're tying them up because it's something fun to do so that they don't become suspicious, and if it really is something fun to do, then that's just icing on the cake.
Kids post here all the time asking "how can I get one of my friends to let me tie them up." Obviously the easiest way is to simply ask if you can tie them up, but we all know why they don't do that.
Philip
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 11:11:45 PM
Philip
Excellent,honest & true comments Philip, getting back to the reasons the site was created. Pay no attention to the flames you are just speaking the truth & a lot of people don't like that.
But it does show up all those 'true' stories as so fake & false of people being so tightly hogtied for hours on end & that they would sure need urgent medical attention after being untied
Clayton
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Sunday, May 15th 2005 - 11:27:40 PM
Philip, must you analyze every single story and share your opinion? If you are so against adults posting stories as "kids", then what is an ADULT like you doing here anyway?
I'm not against fiction, in fact it probably may be better than the real thing. I think everyone would be happier if they'd lable their story with a TRUE STORY / FICTIONAL STORY tag.
darkshadow74656
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 05:43:05 AM
Comments
--I think some Storys are really hard to Belive, but I think most are really True.I have tried tied up with Saran Wrap and or Duct Tape.The Wrapped Person was between 7-14.We have Tied sometimes about more then 4 Hours.I was HOT !! But it was also True ! We have also tried Vaccum Games.And it was awnesome.But True...
Greez Jester
Jester
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 05:45:58 PM
Phillip nailed it on the head. I completely concur.
As a former boy scout, I can testify that the only reason we played these types of games was because it was fun. We would never leave someone to be by themselves.
Joe
puhoudini@yahoo.com
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Monday, May 16th 2005 - 08:02:03 PM
again
just one thing i forgot. the "word" MMMPH is used to give the reader a better visual of whats going on. it works, so leave it alone.
lord nikon
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Philip's stories
- 01 - A True Story (m/m)
- 02 - Comments on stories' believability (Discussion)
Index of all stories in the "Archive for Everyone" section